Nationality and Race

One would expect someone like Nick Griffin to deliberately misunderstand the difference between nationality and race:


But even I would have expected someone like Peter Black to understand the difference. However, from what Cynical Dragon brought to our attention today, he obviously doesn't:

Don't think that just by calling yourself 'The Party of Wales' you are actually the 'Party of Wales'. At the end of the day you are just a bunch of politicians like all the rest of us. And actually the difference between racial nationalism and civic nationalism is not that great! But yes Wales is a lot bigger than any political movement.

As for Plaid they define their nationalism by their Welshness thus their race forms part of their identity as a party.


I'm reminded of the time I enjoyed on the WalesOnline forum making fun of their BNP poster. I didn't think it needed saying again, but it evidently does. So I'll repeat one of the shorter posts I made then:

I too "want to live in my own country, amongst my own people, in my own way". My countrymen and women include:





Anyone who regards race as a component of nationality is a racist.

I'd be more inclined to think that Peter Black has let the recoil from another of his cheap snipes knock him back into a hole ... which he could yet climb out of if he chose to reframe his words. But to judge by his attitude on Facebook, he seems to want to stand by what he said. That makes him a racist.

And if he or anyone else thinks I'm being harsh on him, my answer is that woolly thinking from people who should know better is one of the things that allows racism to take hold. Being Welsh is a matter of nationality, and the things that define one's nationality (in Wales, as in the rest of Europe and the Western world) have nothing to do with race. If you mix the two things up, you can never hope to stand against racism.

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Anonymous said...

And the people all said ------------ Yes
Peter is being stupid on this one
What will he have a go at next gender !

Anonymous said...

In reality, this confused thinking is a consequence of British nationalism which at most levels has a racial tinge. There is still a yearning for Empire amongst all classes. Even today, it is justified as a civilising influence. The UK has a political class and media which confuses 'nation' and 'state'. Most Brits still think they are a Great Power.

Daily, we hear the litany of clichés roll out: "we have the best army / health service / television / football / etc in the world". How can these hardened mono-lingualists possibly know? Their anti-Europeanism is sickening too.

My thesis is that British nationalism in all parties and in all forms needs to be attacked. Unfortunately, too much energy, and the oxygen of publicity, is presently given (even by Plaid people) to the extreme British nationalist faction. The latter grow out of the signal failure of Anglo-American neo-conservatism and Labour in particular. Peter Black just shows that tendency lies within the Liberal democrats too.

MH said...

Anon, please be careful. I think you're falling into the same trap as Peter Black did. You seem to be saying that "British nationalism" is, in itself, in some way racist. There might be a lot in what you say regarding attitudes about the enlightenment, culture and values they think Britian has given the world ... but very few politicians, even those most attached to the idea of Britishness, think of it in terms of race.

Draw a clear dividing line between the majority that doesn't and the few who do. Condemn those few for their racism, not their attachment to whatever values they see as intrinsic to Britishness ... then argue with the rest about their ideas of what Britishness means, and if it is in any way as unique or valuable a contribution to the world as they would like to believe.

Unknown said...

MH -you are being a bit harsh on anon, who is only trying to draw attention to the way 'British' nationalists do not see themselves as nationalists. But once you challenge them on their core beliefs, you often come back to 'Captain Mannering' sense that it is "England v the World!" - the Thatcherite, 'not one of us' type thinking.

Very quaint and old fashioned, and totally past its best by date!

By the way- did you see 'Thatcher and Scotland -' - still on BBC iPlayer. It more or less gave Thatcher the credit for Scotish Devolution and th rise of the SNP! Very persuasive!

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