How can anyone trust such a blatant liar?

I've said this before, but I'll repeat it. There is room for different opinions about what Plaid Cymru's policy should be on any particular issue, and we have lively debates about it. But at the end of the day we come to a democratic decision about what our policy is.

On the issue of nuclear power, Dafydd Elis-Thomas is perfectly free to disagree with party policy. However disagreeing with it is one thing, but lying about it is something very much more serious. This is a clip from last night's Sharp End:


Dafydd made it clear that he is in favour of building a new nuclear power station at Wylfa. But when Adrian Masters pointed out that the Plaid Cymru is opposed to nuclear power he said "No" and went on to talk about what was decided at conference ... although he doesn't finish the sentence. A few moments later he was asked if he could lead the party and have a different view to that which was expressed at conference. He said, "I've done that before ... but in this case it's not a different view."

In their answers, both Leanne and Elin also said that Plaid Cymru is opposed to any new nuclear power stations in Wales, and that they agree with that policy.


So are Leanne, Elin and Adrian telling the truth ... or is Dafydd? All we need to do is look at the motion that was passed at Conference:

(Newport Branches / European Parliamentary Group)

Conference notes:
1. The tragic consequence of the earthquake and tsunami in Japan which led to the dangerous situation at the Fukushima nuclear power plant, namely that fuel in the reactors produced considerable amounts of heat which led to a full meltdown, causing radioactive material to leak.
2. That the incident at Fukushima, occurring on the 25th anniversary of Chernobyl, heightens concerns for the safety of nuclear energy.
3. That as a result the European Commission has proposed stress tests on all current nuclear reactors, and the UK government has called on the Chief Nuclear Inspector to carry out a review of nuclear installations.
4. That as a result, Germany has announced that all the country’s nuclear power plants will be phased out by 2022. Switzerland has also committed to phasing out nuclear power by 2034.

Conference further notes:
1. The essential principle of energy independence given Plaid’s long term ambition for devolved sovereignty and independence.
2. That as a net exporter of energy with massive undeveloped renewable energy potential new nuclear developments are not required in Wales in the long term in order to meet energy demand. Further investment is required into developing the potential of wave and tidal technologies which when commercialised could lead to Wales becoming more self sufficient in renewable energy.
3. That cost per KW of production for some forms of renewable power generation are lower than nuclear.
4. That the long term costs of nuclear decommissioning are not calculated.
5. The proven evidence of the effect of carbon emissions towards catastrophic climate change, also the growing pressure on fossil fuel resources including significant commodity price escalation as we approach peak fossil fuel production.
6. That the current coalition government’s policies on the carbon price floor will serve in the short term to raise consumer fuel bills and will leave the nuclear industry by the far the biggest beneficiary and also therefore fail to optimise the potential investment in renewable energy that variants of this legislation could bring.

Conference reaffirms:
1. Plaid Cymru’s belief that all energy decisions should be devolved in full to Wales.
2. Plaid Cymru’s total opposition to the construction of any new nuclear power stations. If the Westminster government gives the go ahead for a new nuclear power station at Wylfa, we should make sure that the investment recognises the need to employ local people, invest in training to maximise local employment and make sure that indigenous companies benefit from supply chain opportunities.

Conference calls:
1. For Plaid at all levels to lobby the coalition Westminster government to restructure Carbon Price Floor legislation in order to exempt nuclear power from receiving any form of public funded subsidy.
2. For the EU’s nuclear stress tests to be carried out by independent experts and to be based on robust criteria.
3. On Plaid Cymru to welcome Germany’s decision to phase out all nuclear power stations and to encourage other governments across the world, including the United Kingdom, to follow their lead.
4. For greater investment by the Welsh government in renewables and energy efficiency measures.

Plaid Cymru Conference Handbook, 2011

This represents the original motion together with the amendments to it as passed at conference. Full details are in this post.

So what Dafydd said is clearly wrong. At our conference in September last year we reaffirmed our "total opposition to the construction of any new nuclear power stations" including Wylfa B.

The amendment that was added simply says that if it is forced onto us by Westminster against our will, we should try and get the best out of it at local level. Elin explains that very well later in the debate.


This is why Dafydd Elis-Thomas is totally unfit to be the leader of Plaid Cymru. He might well be eloquent, I'll willingly grant him that, but isn't it much better for us to have someone with who will tell the truth with a few umms and ahhs than a smooth talking, but blatant, liar? This is an internal Plaid Cymru election. If Dafydd lacks the basic moral decency to tell people in his own party the truth in this election, how on earth will anyone outside the party be able to trust anything he says on behalf of the party when it comes to future elections?

More importantly, how can we hope to make any electoral breakthrough as a party if we as party members are foolish enough to choose a leader who is a blatant liar?

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Unknown said...

He is very articulate at saying either nothing at all, or how experienced and superior he is to everyone else in Wales, or, as you point out, telling blatant llies! If he wind (I know he won't) but I will be going to Trimsaran for the special conference, and cutting up my Plaid card very publicly and noisily when he starts speaking. I'm pretty sure there will be bus-loads of us there.

I think I may be able to live with Elin as a caretaker for Adam when he comes back in the next election to take over RhodriGT's seat. But Leanne will not be a caretaker! I think it is all down to where DET's second preference will go, and although he has always styled himself as a socialist, (quite fraudulently in my view,I am afraid that a lot of his cultural nationalist backers will go for Elin. Hope I am wrong, and there is a lot of campaigning to go yet.

Anonymous said...

As a Labour supporter, Leanne Wood is the person we are most scared of.

Anonymous said...

"As a Labour supporter, Leanne Wood is the person we are most scared of."

Yeh, and as a Labour supporter why should we believe you?

Don't throw me in the briar patch Bre Fox.

Anonymous said...

"Yeh, and as a Labour supporter why should we believe you?"

What you gotta figure out is this: is it a single or a double bluff?

Am I saying we are most scared of Leanne so you think we in Labour actually want you to vote for someone else? Or am I saying that so you think we really are most scared of Leanne but are trying to but you off the scent...

Anonymous said...

surely Dafydd was just emphasising the point Conference calls (2)about Wylfa.

Anonymous said...

Prominent politicians only get where they are by ditching principle for party and the greasy pole.

Before the general election, and even at the Aberystwyth "peace hustings" Mark Williams, LibDem MP for Ceredigion stated that he was against the use of ParcAberporth for military drones.

Since being re-elected, I have not heard one word from Mark Williams condemning the fact that ParcAberporth is being used *exclusively* by the military, the civilian UAV project having failed.

Perhaps I'm being too harsh and we should cut Williams some slack. After all, for LibDems, hypocrisy has become a way of life....

I have Tweeted both Elin Jones and Leanne Wood on ParcAberporth but they appear to be ignoring the subject. I could do with some help to flush out their views on the militarisation of west Wales, as I'm not voting for either of them if they are happy for it to continue.

mairede thomas said...

Anyone who cares about Wales has got to call for the decisions about energy infrastructure to be taken locally. So energy infrastructure developments above 50MW have to be taken in Wales, at the moment that is not the case as the ultimate authority to take these decisions rests with the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change. His energy policy will be interpreted by the National Infrastructure Division within the Planning Inspectorate.

However, if authority were to pass to Wales for these decisions, it is then essential to be realistic about Wales' requirement for energy and how that might be provided.

At the moment, according to 'A Climate Change Risk Assessment for Wales', published in January this year, just 3% of generating capacity is currently from wind in Wales. Although the document is not very precise or clear, my understanding is that is from both on and off-shore wind.

So you have to ask what does Plaid consider it is realistic to use in place of nuclear?

MH said...

I trust that this article will reassure you about Leanne's position on UAVs at Parc Aberporth, Webswonder.

However this article seems to show that Elin Jones supports it.

Adam Price is also quoted in that article, but as being highly critical of it. Adam is one of Leanne's high profile supporters ... so it's hardly surprising that they think the same way.

MH said...

I agree with you that energy decisions should be devolved to Wales, as they already are to Scotland, Mairede.

It is entirely possible for all our electricity consumption needs in Wales to be produced from renewable sources. I wrote two lengthy posts with the figures in June and July last year. In essence, we are already on course to provide more than all the electricity we need from wind power alone when windfarms in the round three offshore zones in the Bristol Channel and Irish Sea are up and running ... i.e before it is realistic for any new nuclear power station to have been built.

This doesn't take into account the huge potential for tidal power. I wrote about why we should be building tidal lagoons here, and there are of course other renewable resources too.

In "A Low Carbon Revolution" the Labour / Plaid Cymru One Wales Government set as an aim "to renewably generate up to twice as much electricity annually by 2025 as we use today". And even the 2011 Tory Manifesto aimed for Wales "to produce 100% of our energy needs from renewable sources by 2025. We will aim to achieve 70% delivery by 2020." Details and links here. So being able to produce all the electricity we consume from renewable sources without needing any electricity from nuclear energy isn't an issue on which the major parties in Wales are in much disagreement.

Unknown said...

It's all about closing the gap from what we earn to what we need to earn.

Why the hell would anyone want to stop us doing that?

The only logical conclusion is that it is in their bes interest to stop us doing that.

Anonymous said...

Hi MH.
Note you havent included a post about the new TrawsCymru service.
As you may know arriva have decided not to take any subsidy on the old X40 service and are setting up their own 10/20/40/50 service branded as Cymru Express operated by double deckers between Aber-Carmarthan and coach service between Aber and Cardiff, but the coach service wont stop in Swansea. This has pre-empted WAGs announcement of who would with the TrawsCymru service on the X40 route. What will happen with the X50 is up in the air.
The new service info is here:

Also the new TC service between Newtown – Cardiff has received new buses which you can see here. Looks very interesting.

TrawsCymrus website is:
Theres also a good deal of info on this forum, in the last two pages:

Ambiorix said...

Nuclear isn't a wise option to take anyway!

Anonymous said...

I don't live very far from Parc Aberporth. I don't know of anybody local who works there. Maybe there are some that I'm not aware of. I have though met people who were working there for short periods in a local pub. They were from London.

Anonymous said...

Anon 20.11,
I'm glad to see a coach service between Aber and Cardiff. I had the unfortunate opportunity to go on that route some years ago - and never again. A general 'service bus' going round corners was horrific- and yes it took over four hours. Ridiculous.

I hope the new service is faster, doesn't stop in every single place and gives the good people of Aberystwyth a decent service to Cardiff.

Anonymous said...

A friend of mine who knows ParcAberporth *very* well commented to me:

"where for example is there room for six to be employed at WWA, (there is only the control tower!) or are they all part-timers (one at a time) or are they at head office at Ross-on-Wye?.

4 employees at UAV centre....I've only ever seen 2.

As for the other 30-35 Watchkeeper employees? .....I don't suppose a single one was resident here before the testing started."

As for Leanne Wood on military UAV testing at ParcAberporth, can anyone point me to a vote, a statement, a quote, or anything where she, personally (not Adam Price or Jonathan Edwards) opposes it?

The article quoted above merely says:

"Plaid Cymru AM Leanne Wood called on the Welsh Assembly Government to back an embargo on providing export licences for weapons to Israel.

Which is not the same thing at all.

Anonymous said...


Why don't you email, tweet, or ask her on facebook? The you can tell us what she said.

I'm with Leanne all the way on embargoing weapons for Israel. It is where the US tests its latest weapons and drones on real people. The BBC doesn't publicise the killing of innocent civilians in Gaza by these unmanned weapons nearly every week. It is too busy grovelling and harping on about this royal or that - and their military passions.

Wales could well do without all the British bases here. The UK spends a huge amount of money on destructive conflict. All of them have left the world in a worse state. It is one very good reason for independence.

Btw Jonathan and Adam both support Leanne's candidature - as do I.

Anonymous said...

Here here to that!

"Why don't you email, tweet, or ask her on Facebook?"

I have, both Twitter and Facebook. Leanne and Elin. Both have said nothing in reply.

I, too support Leanne, but she seems worried as many politicians do, to take a principled stand on militarisation, finding it hard to counter the "not supporting jobs" accusation.

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