tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post8591947894630203491..comments2024-03-07T18:57:39.865+00:00Comments on Syniadau :: The Blog: Plaid Cymru fails to actSyniadauhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13876017048168055247noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-36397926538586425662011-12-17T15:36:08.307+00:002011-12-17T15:36:08.307+00:00Elyboy! Is that you? Get back on walesonline comme...Elyboy! Is that you? Get back on walesonline comments to do the business for leanne.Siônnynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00021974709953206048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-337558299647815582011-12-17T01:02:03.603+00:002011-12-17T01:02:03.603+00:00Sionnyn, i'm looking forward to the hustings t...Sionnyn, i'm looking forward to the hustings too, all be it from afar and like your good self comrade, Leanne for leader! <br />I've just re joined as my membership expired, no doubt we'll cross paths during the hustings debate online 8-)<br />Elyboy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-57215191014504407972011-12-16T19:24:49.262+00:002011-12-16T19:24:49.262+00:00I am looking forward to the hustings, and asking D...I am looking forward to the hustings, and asking DET directly WTF is he doing in this party? Only Leanne will do - everybody else is just more stodge and coming third.Siônnynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00021974709953206048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-28714133814622131882011-12-16T14:45:35.632+00:002011-12-16T14:45:35.632+00:00They should both stand down! what the hell are the...They should both stand down! what the hell are they playing at? running off to the press and stirring up shyte? for that alone they should be told to wind their necks in by the powers that be, disappointing tbh.<br />If Leanne hadn't entered i'd have reluctantly voted for Elin. LORD det is a liability without this bollix, Simon seems a decent sort from the social democratic wing and but similarly retiscent of full frontal independence assault.<br />I joined this party 30 years ago and i've never wavered, i joined for independence and socialism then and that's what i believe today and the very least i expect from our parties senior members in public discourse.<br />Raging Elyboy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-44601596689120586782011-12-16T10:21:21.088+00:002011-12-16T10:21:21.088+00:00You're absolutely right to make this public. I...You're absolutely right to make this public. Is there not a function that could trigger a disciplinary such as adding more names to the complaint?<br /><br />I would be quite satisfied just to see the line reiterated to them formally.<br /><br />I don't believe that senior representatives opposing our party position on another issue would be tolerated. I think you would struggle to find an example of a Plaid politician openly disagreeing with any other policy. <br /><br />To be honest from the grassroots it looks like out right arrogance to disregard that our conference has supported a position. <br /><br />As you rightly point out in the article there is room for debate on any issue but that's through our democratic meetings and conferences rather than unilaterally in the media.Luke Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-57264138231665185652011-12-16T00:56:24.528+00:002011-12-16T00:56:24.528+00:00please comrades lets have no talk of expelling peo...please comrades lets have no talk of expelling people or anything like that. Of course as a party our ultimate aim should be full self government for wales but we have to take the people of wales with us on that, and that will take time. <br /><br />In the meantime we need to - as has been suggested - explain to the people of wales why we wish to one day see wales as a self governing nation and how ordinary people in wales will benefit from this.<br /><br />This should not be too difficult to do given the decades of neglect, marginalisation and exploitation wales and its people has endured at the hands of the british state and successive british governments and indeed continues to endure.<br /><br />Leigh Richards<br />swanseaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-35534470879063946632011-12-15T19:26:40.223+00:002011-12-15T19:26:40.223+00:00A few points;
I remember making a complaint about ...A few points;<br />I remember making a complaint about DET months ago in his original interview. I'm still to receive a reply.<br /><br />I don't agree with a number of 'minor' Plaid issues, however I stick with them; simply because their overall aim is my key aim - independence. To deny this is just ridiculous.<br /><br />However, until the "old crowd" leave I don't think their will be a firm line on this by the party. <br /><br />However 2- there is hope. Two of the runners for the leadership (and probably the 2 favourites UNLESS they steal votes off each other i.e split it). Have come out openly about independence; Leanne's first words (which surprised me!) was about independence, as did Elin.<br /><br />If these were to win; then the party would have to take a harder line on independence. And if that means expelling some of the AM's from the group- difficult in the short term, but essential in the long term. So be it. In fact it may be quite good as it'd give us publicity and in turn get rid of the "dead wood" of the party that should've retired last Assembly term. F<br /><br />Frankly I find these people selfish. A) they go against the party on a major issue, and B) they've been in their seats for a number of terms and won't give up their safe seats for fresh blood.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-61136672930736056732011-12-15T19:24:34.558+00:002011-12-15T19:24:34.558+00:00I think that Plaid's elected representatives a...I think that Plaid's elected representatives and prospective candidates (at all levels) should subscribe to the party's fundamental aims.<br /><br />Thankfully at last the issue of independence has been clarified democratically.<br /><br />It's the party's unique selling point and those senior members who are unable to subscribe to it, cannot as far as I can see properly serve as its elected representatives. If they had integrity, they should announce that they are standing down at the next election.<br /><br />I've never been able to make sense of a lot of what DET says. He comes over as trying to be intelligent. I won't remain in the party if he is elected as its leader, probably won't vote for it either. It would be a total waste of time and effort.<br /><br />As for the suggestion made by Neilyn above that Plaid sanctions such opinions being aired.. I don't think its leaders are that sophisticated or capable of such finesse. If they were, then the party wouldn't be in the position it finds itself in.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-83819337690515276752011-12-15T18:17:42.356+00:002011-12-15T18:17:42.356+00:00DET said "I was happy to talk about self gove...DET said "I was happy to talk about self government and self determination but independence is something I found ethically incompatible". He needs to explain exactly what he means by "ethically incompatible". Incompatible with what exactly, and where in what way does ethics come into it? Is he suggesting that an independent Wales is morally wrong? How can you have greater devolution within Europe (by which he means, presumably, the EU), if you don't leave the UK and become a member state? Does he think the First Minister of Wales can sit at the top table with Merkel, Sarkozy and Cameron!?<br /><br />I find his position hard to judge because I just don't understand the sum and substance of what he's actually saying. It has to be quantified precisely to make any real sense, which in some ways has always been a somewhat complicated where Europe is concerned. <br /><br />It may also be just an over-active imagination on my part but it has crossed my mind that his position and that of RhGT are sanctioned by Plaid so as to keep the apparent majority against independence interested in Plaid as a party favouring 'devo-max/independence lite' in addition to outright independence should public opinion shift significantly. This could be a smart move as the longer term constitutional future of Scotland becomes increasingly a focus of debate, perhaps giving Plaid a real opportunity to get the debate well and truly off the ground in Wales without a singular threat of 'outright separation' when many find the idea impossible to grasp at present. It also, of course, then leaves all options open for when the UK faces the reality of a major constitutional change of one kind or another post-referendum.Neilynnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-43675057037057242702011-12-15T18:17:15.863+00:002011-12-15T18:17:15.863+00:00Well said, MH!Well said, MH!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-75962239678187249842011-12-15T16:11:42.591+00:002011-12-15T16:11:42.591+00:00Perhaps whilst you're having a dig at Dafydd E...Perhaps whilst you're having a dig at Dafydd Elis Thomas and Rhodri Glyn Thomas, you could perhaps post a full proposal on how Wales could be independent? I'd love to see it.<br />Supporting independence is one thing, but until you can prove it works then it's just a pipe dream for you nationalists.<br />DET and RhGT are formidable politicians. Your sulk on here will not change their minds. The civil war the media will create out of your 'story' will just strengthen the hand of other parties at a time when Plaid seems to be the only party taking sense right now.<br />Cheers, mate!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-40879333219323507822011-12-15T12:07:24.308+00:002011-12-15T12:07:24.308+00:00I've got nothing to add as this post says perf...I've got nothing to add as this post says perfectly what my feeling are regarding Plaid. Da Iawn wir!Nia Daviesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-53822895993902927002011-12-15T10:16:29.678+00:002011-12-15T10:16:29.678+00:00You're mad. Lord Elis-Thomas and the other on...You're mad. Lord Elis-Thomas and the other one are the only ones in your party who've got any sense. Independence for Wales is an impossible dream. Plaid Cymru won't make the electoral breakthrough it wants until it works with the Labour majority for the good of everybody in Wales.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-74884478910009429572011-12-15T09:43:28.955+00:002011-12-15T09:43:28.955+00:00Michael,
I agree with you about the overall aims ...Michael,<br /><br />I agree with you about the overall aims and objectives of Plaid. In this I am unequivocal as well: an independent Wales, with UN status and a member of a European economic and monetary federation (I only fall short of saying the EU as it is difficult to know at this stage "which" future EU will be best suited to Wales's situation). I have never had a problem articulating this and arguing for it in public.<br /><br />However, I am a little uncomfortable outlawing from the party alternative views to this. Our constitution is clear, our election manifestos should be clear, and our communications and public speakers should be clear about this. If a minority of members hold a different view then I am happy to engage with them and persuade them differently. I agree that they should show respect for the official party position and moderate the communication of their views accordingly, but I would not want to see them hounded out. I think this requires a degree of maturity and sophistication from the party leadership in managing this situation, not a knee-jerk reaction.<br /><br />The most successful political parties are able to manage, harness and indeed take full advantage of their broad church. We should be able to do the same.<br /><br />I understand and respect your concerns, but I just hope there is a place for DET and RhGT in Plaid and that their considerable talents can be used for the good of the cause. Having said this, I'd fully expect our new, next leader and leadership team to strike this balance appropriately. That is their job after all.<br /><br />Phil DaviesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-50826750358449373972011-12-15T09:32:36.939+00:002011-12-15T09:32:36.939+00:00A significant - heavyweight post, MH. Possibly one...A significant - heavyweight post, MH. Possibly one of your most important ever. <br /><br />I am particularly galled by the contrast between the way this issue , which is fundamental to our party's purpose, has been handled compared to the shabby treatment of Neil McEvoy, who, while perhaps using un-diplomatic language, was merely raising deep concerns that are widespread amongst absent fathers in Wales (including me) , and did not challenge the purpose of the party.Siônnynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00021974709953206048noreply@blogger.com