tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post6432315086305475756..comments2024-03-27T18:54:46.951+00:00Comments on Syniadau :: The Blog: Disaggregated tax receipts for WalesSyniadauhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13876017048168055247noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-91842115837407993602013-10-08T19:57:22.449+01:002013-10-08T19:57:22.449+01:00Interesting point by Neilyn. Especially if England...Interesting point by Neilyn. Especially if England goes through an identity crisis as a result of the UK state losing Scotland.<br /><br />Nationalists in Wales will feel stronger, especially as Scotland would be perceived here to be making a relative success of independence (they'll almost certainly have a left-of-centre government and good oil prices for a while). <br /><br />What is less predictable is how the Labour establishment here will react. Or whether there will be several different reactions from different parts of the Labour party.<br /><br />What I think (without being an expert) would happen is some kind of "devo-max" consensus from the unions, Labour, Plaid and Lib Dems, but still with some kind of block grant. The unions in particular will see this as a form of protection from Westminster. It could be quite interesting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-45098873620966867752013-10-08T19:41:09.864+01:002013-10-08T19:41:09.864+01:00If it's a Yes vote in Scotland next year, in w...If it's a Yes vote in Scotland next year, in what ways will that change people's perceptions of Wales' situation? Putting aside the surface politics/economics...<br /><br />Will our neighbour not seem a whole lot bigger and a whole lot more 'dominant'? <br /><br />If Montenegro felt uneasy about continued Union with Serbia in 2006 (circa 11x the population), what about us? (circa 17x smaller population than our neighbour).<br /><br />If we sometimes/often feel misunderstood, disregarded or denigrated now, how will things fare for us if Scotland departs? The political Union twixt the 2 Kingdoms will be over, and the Kingdom of England will doubtless re-emerge (and quite proudly, loudly, and unabashed I imagine, regardless of the political class' preferences). Judging by the results of the 2011 Census on National Identity, the English have already made the 'switch'...<br /><br />So much is felt, so much is perception.Neilynnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-26844702846190965212013-10-08T10:42:54.931+01:002013-10-08T10:42:54.931+01:00Your "point" seems to be changing all th...Your "point" seems to be changing all the time, Anon.<br /><br />You are free to disagree with the idea that the ambiguity, prevarication and at times open opposition to independence for Wales from Plaid Cymru's past leaders has contributed to its lack of electoral success. You are also free to disagree with the idea that one reason for the SNP's electoral success has been because of its consistency about independence for Scotland.<br /><br />But it is ridiculous to try and justify your disagreement by claiming that independence was only embraced by the SNP in 2004 ... and even more ridiculous to portray it as a "basic fact". MHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09329059309196746446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-68946982718615826492013-10-08T08:47:32.577+01:002013-10-08T08:47:32.577+01:00Sorry, MH, but it's not an 'idea' that...Sorry, MH, but it's not an 'idea' that I've just come up with! It's actually a basic fact about the SNP's constitutional policy! <br /><br />You are right, of course, that the SNP used the term 'independence' in their campaigns long before they adopted it formally (their formal position was in favour of 'self-government - which sounds awfully familiar to Welsh ears!) I would add that they never quite had the Plaid levels of hang up about the 'i' word - or, relatedly, 'sovereignty'. But still, my point stands: there's a tendency among nationalists to oversimplify things. I have a Plaid poster at home from the early 90s which demands 'independence in Europe', while the 'i' word has not always been a straightforward one for the SNP...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-78918360170973390492013-10-07T22:45:35.517+01:002013-10-07T22:45:35.517+01:00It's better than the earlier version, 21:13. ...It's better than the earlier version, 21:13. At least we now know where your idea comes from. <br /><br />But it doesn't mean that it's right. Here is <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/scottishpoliticalarchive/5169776886/in/photostream/" rel="nofollow">one example</a> of an SNP election leaflet from the late 60s. It says someting that could be repeated word-for-word today:<br /><br /><i>"But by voting for the London-controlled Tory-Labour parties you give up before you start. In an independent Scotland your vote will be effective – left or right."</i><br /><br />I don't know about the very early history of the SNP, but this shows that independence has been something they have wanted for more than 40 years. And their position was unequivocally pro-independence in the 70s with the <i>It's Scotland's Oil</i> campaign.MHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09329059309196746446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-15788082644229487542013-10-07T21:13:39.435+01:002013-10-07T21:13:39.435+01:00Having been deleted once by MH let me try again......Having been deleted once by MH let me try again...<br /><br />A myth has taken root amongst a section of nationalists that the SNP has always been pro-independence. Welsh not British puts it like this:<br />"The primary goal for the SNP is and has always been independence."<br />Often this belief serves to underpin a worldview that suggests that Plaid are somehow inferior that their Scottish equivalent because they've been unable to embrace independence with such alacrity and conviction. If only Plaid was more like the SNP in terms of its constitutional policy, Plaid would be performing more like the SNP at the polls...<br /><br />Trouble is - at least as far as the SNP is concerned - this just isn't true. Or at best it's a massive oversimplification. Witness the fact the 'i' word was only officially embraced by the SNP as the term to describe it's constitutional aspiration for Scotland in 2004. Which is, of course, just around the same time as Plaid started using it...<br /><br />Can I suggest people read James Mitchell's various writings on the SNP? Or does that get me deleted as well?!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-41040513252837223282013-10-07T18:37:39.846+01:002013-10-07T18:37:39.846+01:00Thank you for that link, 14:07. It is an interest...Thank you for that link, 14:07. It is an interesting article, and its broad thrust makes enough sense for me not to want to quibble about any of the details. I liked the graphic too.<br /><br />What David Marquand said about the difference between the English attitude to losing the empire compared with that of the Welsh and Scottish was not only spot on, but echoed what Ralph Miliband said about how the English thought of the empire while they still had it and while he was still a teenager. <br /><br /><i>"The Englishman is a rabid nationalist. They are perhaps the most nationalist people in the world ... you sometimes want them almost to lose [the war] to show them how things are. They have the greatest contempt for the Continent ... To lose their empire would be the worst possible humiliation."</i><br /><br />It was so typical of the Daily Mail's Englishness to interpret what he said of the <i>English</i> as hatred of <i>Britain</i> ... and so typical of every political party and the mainstream-media to not notice it.<br /><br />-<br /><br />I wouldn't worry about how Wales will vote in an EU referendum. I'd agree that there is a lot of apathy about it now, but minds will be concentrated if and when it takes place. I think people will largely vote on party lines in the referendum, not so much out of any sense of loyalty, but because they will trust the opinion of the politicians they already trust enough to vote for at other times. <br /><br />Plaid supporters will vote to stay in. So will LibDem supporters (if there are enough in Wales to matter). Labour (and certainly Labour in Wales) will be in favour of remaining in the EU, so their supporters are likely to go along with that ... and there simply aren't enough Tories and UKIPers in Wales to sway the balance. This makes me confident that Wales will vote to stay in the EU, even though opinion in Wales might be fairly evenly split now. <br /><br />The bigger question is how people will vote in England. Yes, I'd be inclined to agree that if only England voted to leave the EU, it would lead to the break-up of the UK. However it would not be "the reason" for the break-up, because I believe it is <i>inevitable</i> that Wales and Scotland will become independent anyway. For me, it is only a question of which straw finally breaks the camel's back. <br /><br />I think that England will realize that remaining in the EU is in its best interests. There's some truth in the idea that being outside the EU will mean an even greater over-reliance on financial services, and to London becoming some sort of city-state with a large commuter belt that includes the whole of south east England. So the question is whether the rest of England will want that to happen, or whether they will vote to stay in the EU as the only way of stopping it. I think that the midlands and north of England will vote to stay in the EU, and that these votes will outweigh the votes of the south east.<br /><br />Staying in the EU might be a blow to those who hope that a Brexit will provide the circumstances that lead to independence for Wales. But the fact that the rest of England will have asserted itself to stop the ever-greater dominance of London and its reliance on financial services will be something that strengthens England's sense of political identity; and it is this growing sense that we are all better able to govern ourselves as independent nations that will ultimately lead to the break-up of the UK. MHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09329059309196746446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-23020293248041876052013-10-07T14:07:57.187+01:002013-10-07T14:07:57.187+01:00David Marquand talks about some of the similaritie...David Marquand talks about some of the similarities and differences between Wales and Scotland here- http://www.newstatesman.com/2013/09/first-brexit-then-break , it's quite interesting. He notes the historical differences discussed above but says there is a similarity with Scotland in that our political culture is different to England's political culture, and also the divergence in policies here (or indeed in England). More people in Wales will see the sense of becoming independent as they see further divergence. I want to share Marquand's view that a "Brexit" would break up the UK, but i'm unfortunately not convinced the Welsh feel strongly enough about the EU. There's alot of apathy out there.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-50442523073564719372013-10-07T12:24:54.789+01:002013-10-07T12:24:54.789+01:00If you want to make a comment of that nature, you ...If you want to make a comment of that nature, you need to back it up with some evidence, 10:45.MHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09329059309196746446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-10524691035398663632013-10-07T10:45:09.782+01:002013-10-07T10:45:09.782+01:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-46801653552436125072013-10-06T10:11:36.709+01:002013-10-06T10:11:36.709+01:00Most people in Wales are completely switched off a...Most people in Wales are completely switched off and don't realise what being in this 'union' or independence could actually mean.<br /><br />As an example two of the biggest reasons for people in Scotland to vote yes are to make Scotland a nuke free country and to be able to protect the people of Scotland from Labour/Tory policies that deliberately target the poor and the disabled.<br /><br />I know this is off topic but I thought MH would be interested in <a href="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/nuclear-scare-at-navy-submarine-base-after-unbelievable-failures-8861361.html" rel="nofollow">this</a>Welsh not Britishhttp://www.welshnotbritish.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-89681003058908308452013-10-05T18:46:49.980+01:002013-10-05T18:46:49.980+01:00To 15:32. I completely disagree that we need to d...To 15:32. I completely disagree that we need to de-emphasize independence to get into power. That's what Dafydd El-Cid told Alex Salmond to do after the SNP did badly in the 2003 election, details <a href="http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/it_s_time_to_look_beyond_independence_1_555946" rel="nofollow">here</a>: <br /><br /><i>Last week, the former leader of the Welsh nationalists [DET] spoke up about the SNP's failure to adjust to devolution, commenting: "There is still a role for them but not as a nationalist party."<br /><br />He added that the SNP’s only chance of government was to cease to pursue "Scottish independence as if this is the real issue" and transform itself into a "party of government within the devolved set-up."</i><br /><br />Alex just laughed at the idea, details <a href="http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/salmond-seeks-put-elis-thomas-right-2415147" rel="nofollow">here</a>:<br /><br /><i>I was amused by the Scottish press who ran the piece just before our conference and they said, "Dafydd Elis-Thomas doesn't believe in independence anymore."<br /><br />"Well he never believed in independence anyway."<br /><br />When asked whether there was any merit in Lord Elis-Thomas's arguments, Mr Salmond said, "Most of the criticism of the SNP actually comes from those who say we have lost sight of the vision of an independent Scotland by getting involved in devolution and getting wrapped up in the day-to-day running of politics.<br /><br />"We have to do both. Where I disagree with my distinguished colleague is that you have to have a successful national party. You have to have a vision of independence galvanizing support and the promise of what independence can deliver linked to a social and economic vision that you want to deliver. The job of the SNP is not to substitute the constitutional debate with the social and economic debate or vice versa but to link the two."</i><br /><br />I don't think anyone doubts that Alex is a very much more credible and consistent politician than poor Dafydd. <br /><br />-<br /><br />As for whether the Welsh public will need a few decades to be convinced about independence, I don't know. We won't become independent until we vote for it. But those who want independence (both inside and outside Plaid Cymru) won't convince anyone about it unless we believe it ourselves ... and it seems as if there are still quite a few in senior positions in Plaid Cymru that need to be convinced. MHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09329059309196746446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-9485341939126096612013-10-05T18:40:55.165+01:002013-10-05T18:40:55.165+01:00No, 12:15, I don't think even Labour could spi...No, 12:15, I don't think even Labour could spin these figures into a positive story. But of course I think we have potential as a nation if we develop our economy in a way that suits our strengths, rather than live as part of a UK that is run to suit the strengths of London and south east England. <br /><br />Plaid Cymru's job is to present a convincing picture of how much more prosperous we will be if we did things in a different way. Not to hold off on independence until we are more prosperous.<br /><br />----<br /><br />I think I agree with all your 14:52 comment, Stu. On water, I think Alwyn ap Huw hit the nail on the head when he said that if southern England was short of water, the answer was not massive engineering schemes to give them more of ours, but for them to move their water-intensive industries (brewing, soft drinks, etc) from southern England to Wales. <br /><br />Mass transfers or water might be worth 6p/m3 or 0.006p a litre. Good bottled beer might be worth £6 a litre. That means it's 100,000 times more valuable as an export than water.MHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09329059309196746446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-6016481280904945952013-10-05T18:38:25.574+01:002013-10-05T18:38:25.574+01:00To 11:58, continued.
You didn't make it cle...<i>To 11:58, continued</i>. <br /><br />You didn't make it clear what the "it" was in, "We need to accept it's going to be a longer hard trek in Wales." I suspect you mean independence, because you go on to say that Plaid should focus on trying to become the government in Wales, and that independence "should be expressed in gradualist terms". <br /><br />I have no time for that attitude at all. It reminds me of Peter Hain and the primary lawmaking powers referendum. He kept saying that he did want it to happen ... but only saw it happening many years in the future. I always saw it as some sort of doublespeak code meaning that he didn't want any more devolution in his lifetime, and it was just a way of saying that he didn't want it at all, even though he lacked the courage to say so.<br /><br />I think we must always say that we want independence for Wales <b>now</b>, as soon as we can get it. Although I think that Elin Jones meant well, I thought it was really politically inept to say that she wanted independence by 2036, and was still inept when she changed it to only wanting independence if Plaid won two elections. If we are to lead public opinion, we must always present a consistent vision of wanting independence now.<br /><br />When I said I was prepared to take things step by step, I meant that we should always take the most we can get whenever any additional autonomy or decision-making power is offered to Wales. But when we are in the driving seat, we set the pace ... and that must mean that we have a referendum on independence during our first term if we can get a majority for it in the Assembly.<br /><br />This brings me back to the point I made before. We cannot wait until we can "afford independence", because we'll probably be waiting for ever. Being part of the UK is what is holding us back. The message must be that we want independence because taking control of our own affairs is what will make us more prosperous. Yes, we will have some tricky years to begin with, but aren't we <b>already</b> going through tricky years? They are going to get worse, for the cuts haven't even begun to bite yet.MHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09329059309196746446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-33360776502747246732013-10-05T18:38:03.924+01:002013-10-05T18:38:03.924+01:00I don't find the narrative you portray very co...I don't find the narrative you portray very convincing, 11:58. I do think that we have had problems with self-confidence in our ability to govern ourselves, but that is changing. I don't think I'd use the words cowardly or pathetic, though, because I don't think that's the best way of encouraging change.<br /><br />However I would use the term cowardly and pathetic of Plaid Cymru during that bleak period when half its leaders were afraid to say "independence" and the other half were actively fighting against it. The SNP was always much more consistent in stating that it wanted to see an independent Scotland. That is what gave the party enough credibility to get elected. Think about it. They could only prove themselves to be a competent party of "good governance" <b>after</b> they had been elected, but they wouldn't have got enough seats to form a government if they had been wishy-washy about what wanting independence first, foremost, and as soon as possible. Hopefully Plaid Cymru has gone some way to reasserting that we want independence, but I can't say the message from the top has been as forceful and unequivocal as it should be. This needs to change urgently before we can hope to make any political headway.<br /><br />I don't think being independent several hundred years ago has got anything whatsoever to do with why Scotland is ahead of us. The only possible things that would give the Scots any head start over us would be that they retained their church, their education system, and their legal system. But we in Wales have had a disestablished church for nearly a century (and religion is nowhere near as relevant to most people now as it was before, anyway) and now have almost full control of our education system. As for law, Ireland shared exactly the same legal system as England, and so did many English-speaking countries in the British Empire ... but that didn't stand in the way of them becoming independent, therefore why should it stand in our way?<br /><br />So you might call these things "real hard facts", but I'm more inclined to call them excuses.<br /><br /><i>Continued in next comment ... </i>MHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09329059309196746446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-7409819076506104182013-10-05T17:25:33.386+01:002013-10-05T17:25:33.386+01:00More powers are not ours to take, they are England...More powers are not ours to take, they are England's to give. That is the sad reality of devolution which was summed up by Jack Straw when he said that power devolved is power retained.<br /><br />It was further hammered home when the Welsh Labour MPs voted no to devolving energy and The Crown Estates. These gravy train riding traitors will gladly see us fighting each other in the gutters than do anything to upset their free ride.<br /><br />Most people in Wales see Plaid as a language party. Most people also do not vote. By showing the people of Wales that we would be better off free from London rule is the only way people will be convinced to get off their backsides and vote.<br /><br />Plaid have just managed to return £11m to Wrecsam that was stolen by the treasury. No doubt the people of Wrecsam will show their gratitude by voting Labour at the next election.<br /><br />Newport has just seen the destruction of it's chartist mural, at the next elections they will show their gratitude by voting Labour once again. These stories will be repeated right across Wales unless there is an alternative to Labour and this sham of a union. Until Plaid make independence their number one goal the people who do vote might as well vote Labour.Welsh not Britishhttp://www.welshnotbritish.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-63269408762044191242013-10-05T15:32:20.772+01:002013-10-05T15:32:20.772+01:00Wales was historically conquered and incorporated-...Wales was historically conquered and incorporated- literally- into England's laws. The position we're in now basically makes sense. The argument should be about taking more and more control over our own affairs. Then independence will make more sense to people. But my feeling is we may need decades of nationalist rule before it is seen as a good idea by the public, and we might need to de-emphasise independence to get into power.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-65217970662277274672013-10-05T14:56:18.984+01:002013-10-05T14:56:18.984+01:00Anon 11:58. The primary goal for the SNP is and ha...Anon 11:58. The primary goal for the SNP is and has always been independence. Plaid changes it's mind so often it's hard to know where they stand from one moment to the next.<br /><br />My comments of "weak" and "pathetic" are due to centuries of brainwashing. This is what happens when you allow your enemy to educate your children.<br /><br />MH. You're right, Wales is desperate for a GERW. Most people have targets in their jobs and if they meet them they are rewarded if they fail they are investigated and continual failure will no doubt lead to replacement.<br /><br />This is not so in Wales. Due to the Stockholm Syndrome we collectively suffer from we're drawn into a Labour vs Conservative battle at election time. We have no real media to speak of. Compare the thorough analysis of our national teams after losing a game with the complete ignorance of our political parties.<br /><br />And for those above who claim water has no value, directly perhaps it's not worth much. But imagine if Wales was in a position where Welsh water wasn't cheaper in Birmingham than it is in Powys. Water is an essential ingredient for many industries, at present the theft of Welsh water essentially means that we are subsidising English businesses and consumers.<br /><br />The same is true for energy and our Crown Estates that are managed by firms outside Wales. Welsh not Britishhttp://www.welshnotbritish.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-16913690922821290312013-10-05T12:16:23.607+01:002013-10-05T12:16:23.607+01:00It's interesting that historically speaking, t...It's interesting that historically speaking, the tax takes from Wales aren't collapsing or dropping off particularly, despite our weak economy. The income tax take in particular has increased at periods. There is a possibility of spinning a positive story about Wales out of this or at least saying, we have some potential as a nation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-24031575608795920862013-10-05T11:58:44.394+01:002013-10-05T11:58:44.394+01:00A really interesting debate. The problem is, the i...A really interesting debate. The problem is, the interpretation that the Welsh are "cowardly" and "pathetic", therefore the solution is a party that puts independence across more strongly, is misleading. The SNP didn't win the 2007 or 2011 elections through independence. It won through good governance and winning key seats. They certainly used a patriotic narrative, and even a cursory glance of the Plaid website shows there is patriotism in abundance. The similarities end there though. Scotland is not Wales. It's already been independent. It makes sense that devolution has led quickly to a referendum there. It makes sense that in Wales it would take longer. Based on history, based on the lack of oil field. If people in Wales seem "cowardly" it's because there are material, factual reasons for that. We need to focus our energies there. <br /><br />I think the discussion about head offices, changes in the electricity and water markets, would make a small difference, but not enough to change the overall fact that we couldn't afford to service the Welsh deficit at the moment. The UK can afford to service its deficit because it has the City of London and (for now) North Sea oil. Scotland could afford to service its deficit because it would have North Sea oil. The mentality of different nations is easily explained when you look at the real hard facts.<br /><br />We need to accept it's going to be a longer hard trek in Wales. So long that there's probably no room for impatience. It's literally that grim. <br /><br />Plaid Cymru should focus on trying to become the government in Wales. As it is doing. Independence should remain our aim but should be expressed in gradualist terms. I say this as if it's a chosen strategy but there's no actual choice at all. It's the reality in front of us. As MH says it isn't "all or nothing". There are intermediate stages and most people understandly want to see us walk before we can run. <br /><br />An "all or nothing" scenario isn't democratic because as someone says, a Tory small state anti-welfare narrative would "work" better than a social democratic one. That isn't compatible with Plaid Cymru but there could always be less moderate parties to be set up, if other people wanted to do that. I notice it never happens though.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-3849824314217666412013-10-05T11:56:17.835+01:002013-10-05T11:56:17.835+01:00I think we both agree that a GERW is necessary, an...I think we both agree that a GERW is necessary, and for the same reasons, and that the current Welsh Government has stubbornly refused to produce it before now, Stu (WnB). So the real question is whether the publication of these figures will change that.<br /><br />It's good to see that Martin Shipton at the Western Mail has now caught up with the story, <a href="http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/wales-economy-desperate-need-growth-6141681" rel="nofollow">here</a>, and that he's managed to get a selection of reactions from the political parties. <br /><br />The important reaction is from Labour. As I'd expect, their first instinct has been to rubbish the report as "incomplete and misleading", especially in regard to not having a breakdown for the regions of England. So does this mean that when/if Labour get into government at Westminster, they will expand the HMRC report to cover this? We could press them on it and try to get a commitment.<br /><br />However I'm willing to bet that the WG's initial reaction was to say, "What? Only 3.5%. We thought it was closer to 4%" (this was the figure that Rhodri Morgan used to cite, and I don't think he would have plucked it out of thin air) and have got a team of civil servants going through these figures right now trying to see if different methodologies will produce better figures for Wales. If they can do this, we can expect Carwyn Jones or Jane Hutt to say so when they are next questioned in the Senedd; but in order for what they say to have any credibility, they will have to produce detailed figures of their own ... in other words the GERW we've been waiting for. <br /><br />These HMRC figures may be "official", but that doesn't necessarily mean they are <b>correct</b>. I noted before that the assumption they made for the geographic share of North Sea revenues was £600,000 a year lower than GERS. Obviously Westminster want to make things look as bleak as they could for Scotland (not that they succeeded), but they'll almost certainly have made equally "loaded" assumptions for Wales. We just need people to start digging into the detail, and that's what civil servants are for. Just give them time.<br /><br />-<br /><br />And of course you're right to say that the UK economy is still in crisis; that the deficit has not been brought under control; and that debt is therefore continuing to rise. But that doesn't really help us in Wales.MHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09329059309196746446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-91319799626020117312013-10-05T08:52:14.780+01:002013-10-05T08:52:14.780+01:00Jane Hutt has no interest in a GERW. Her original ...Jane Hutt has no interest in a GERW. Her original response to my petition was to state that they already produce reports on what they spend. This indicates she even didn't understand or didn't want to understand what a GERW report would entail.<br /><br />My response to this was "...it would be a good barometer for the financial climate of Wales and act as a target that the Welsh Government's successes and failures could be measured against."<br /><br />Hutt's response to this was that this report was coming out from London. And it's a damning indictment of the sham of a union and the Labour one party state we have become.<br /><br />What people must remember though is that there are no money trees in England. The UK has to borrow hundreds of millions of pounds every single day. The difference with us is we are told how to spend it. And even if we do have tax raising powers, unless we oust Labour then the powers will only be used within Carwyn's precious rules where nothing can benefit Wales if it affects the rest of the UK (England).<br /><br />We're a pathetic nation, a cowardly lot. We need a national party with the primary goal of independence. Scotland has one, why don't we?Welsh not Britishhttp://www.welshnotbritish.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-15293601023264333372013-10-04T22:58:13.910+01:002013-10-04T22:58:13.910+01:00As I said before, the methodology document sets ou...As I said before, the <a href="http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/statistics/receipts/disagg-method.pdf" rel="nofollow">methodology document</a> sets out the assumptions, and in these figures corporation tax is part-calculated on registered office location, and part-calculated on the number of employees in each country. The tax on the trading profit is based on where the employees are, the tax on other profits is based on the head office location. Without knowing all the details, this seems to be fairly reasonable, although I think it would be better to base it entirely on how many of its employees are based in each country. <br /><br />I think that one long-overdue change would be to require companies to produce accounts on a regional basis, including the regions of England. This will be particularly important if/when corporation tax gets devolved, as has been on the cards for the Six Counties, and might well happen in Scotland too. When Wales becomes an independent country, then any sizeable company operating here would have to set up a subsidiary for tax/accounting purposes. <br /><br />But bear in mind that large multinationals (Amazon, Starbucks and Google, to name three high profile examples) will "adjust" their accounts across borders if they are allowed to, in order to minimize their tax liability. MHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09329059309196746446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-17677857769556840512013-10-04T22:30:46.975+01:002013-10-04T22:30:46.975+01:00I notice corporation tax is quite law in Wales.
My...I notice corporation tax is quite law in Wales.<br />My question is where does the tax for e.g Tesco stores count for? Where it's head office is I assume.<br /><br />But in an independent Wales Tesco would pay corporation tax on it's stored in Swansea, Cardiff etc wouldn't they???<br /><br />If this is the case then the CorpTax figure is wrong as v.few businesses have their head offices here in Wales.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-30676719727266980572013-10-04T16:24:07.639+01:002013-10-04T16:24:07.639+01:00That particular "mad assertion" hasn'...That particular "mad assertion" hasn't been made by Plaid, 15:05. I said something a little more subtle than that, namely that there was a danger that it could happen if we weren't able to present a clear message about our relative economic performance only improving to the extent that we make our own decisions, geared to our own strengths.<br /><br />And it isn't a matter of "independence or nothing". If we are able to make <i>some</i> decisions, then we should be able (if we make the right ones) to make <i>some</i> difference. If we are able to make <i>more</i> decisions then we will make <i>more</i> of a difference. I'm quite prepared to take it step-by-step; but we should never stop saying that once we are independent and are able to make <i>all</i> the decisions that other countries are able to make, it will make <i>all</i> the difference.<br /><br />As for the welfare state, I think you're making the mistake of seeing it as something that costs money, rather than as a more cost-effective way of providing what we would all have to pay for anyway if the only provision available were private. This means that the welfare state makes <i>more</i> sense for a poorer economy than it would for a richer one ... although that is no reason for a richer country not to do it too. MHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09329059309196746446noreply@blogger.com