tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post3179541023452606286..comments2024-03-27T18:54:46.951+00:00Comments on Syniadau :: The Blog: MPs in WalesSyniadauhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13876017048168055247noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-85102063984432071972018-11-27T06:46:05.393+00:002018-11-27T06:46:05.393+00:00off white
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Moreover, I would add in support of the Keep Cornwall Whole Argument that I can't see how cross-border constituencies would work. Suppose my current constituency (Forest of Dean) were merged with Monmouth, to make one super-safe Conservative seat - Mark Harper or David Davies would have two classes of constituent, one for whom they handled everything political, and one for whom they only directly impacted on about 50-60% of political matters. It would be ridiculous.<br /><br />Just a couple of quibbles. The problem with basing constituency size on census data is that after 2011 the census is to be discontinued. So data will be gathered by different means on a rolling basis, and ergo so would constituency size. Which brings us back to the electoral roll... <br /><br />'Generally speaking, if strict equality were applied, more sparsely populated areas would end up with such geographically large constituencies that they would become unwieldy, with the communities at one end perhaps having very little in common with those at the other and therefore not seeing themselves as an entity.'<br /><br />Do constituencies really represent homogenous communities now? To take my own example, when I lived in Aberystwyth I was in the Ceredigion constituency. The next largest towns were Lampeter and Cardigan. I visited Cardigan just once in the 7 years I lived there, Lampeter only a half a dozen times. I appreciate in the more densely-inhabited areas of S. Wales it is a bit different! So I feel that's a bit of a red herring.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-41502377887314434642010-11-03T15:20:07.824+00:002010-11-03T15:20:07.824+00:00Glyn is right, the reduction in MPs will happen ir...Glyn is right, the reduction in MPs will happen irrespective of whether we elect them by AV or continue to use FPTP. And I do accept the point that a more federal structure for the UK would demand that the smaller constituent parts of that state were (at least at some level) over-represented so as to give each part a more equal voice. The ConDem government's plans show us clearly that they aren't interested in that sort of UK. They want a more unitary state ... and that is what the equalization of constituencies is designed to achieve. So where does that leave an avowed Tory federalist like David Melding? He is left swimming against the tide of his very own party.<br /><br />-<br /><br />I was going to comment on the subject of Wales losing its political voice (as raised by Ramblings and others) but the comment turned out to be something more ... so I've turned it into a new post called AMs in Wales.MHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09329059309196746446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-2849839567074945272010-11-03T12:55:27.945+00:002010-11-03T12:55:27.945+00:00Thanks for the link. Considering we've only ha...Thanks for the link. Considering we've only had universal suffrage in this country since 1928 perhaps we should regard these matters as 'teething problems'!Hendrenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-78922241191905144152010-11-03T10:58:29.735+00:002010-11-03T10:58:29.735+00:00Wales losing MPs, so long as the constituencies ar...Wales losing MPs, so long as the constituencies are decoupled, means that the Assembly will for the first time become the principle democratic forum for Welsh politics. That is a good thing. Most people in Wales would accept a cut in Welsh MPs and in MPs generally. <br /><br />Then again, I sympathise with the argument that Wales will be losing its voice. I personally can only support the MP reductions on the basis of believing in Welsh sovereignty and national liberation.Welsh Ramblingshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17585109264200933570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-18423636178947757752010-11-03T09:02:31.854+00:002010-11-03T09:02:31.854+00:00Plaid especially can't campaign against a redu...Plaid especially can't campaign against a reduction in the number of MPs - it looks like opportunism of the worst kind, suggest Plaid and Welsh nationalists want their cake and eat it and more damaging that Welsh nationalism is just based on being a poor relation with a begging bowl. Plaid need to show some dignity and strength and agree with the reduction in MPs.<br /><br />CymraesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-83044412550990861892010-11-03T08:37:27.135+00:002010-11-03T08:37:27.135+00:00Is the reduction of MPs totally tied to the refere...Is the reduction of MPs totally tied to the referendum on AV, if there is a no vote will it be dropped? I think not. It will be simply recreated as a new bill.<br />The constituencies will not change for the Assembly this did not happen in Scotland when the the number of MPs were cut and the Westminster constituencies are not all the same as those of the Scottish Parliament.<br />However I've just argued on Peter Blacks blog that if Wales,Scotland,Northern Ireland and England were equal members of the Union then surely a "Federal Party" like the Lib-Dems would be arguing for a grater number of MPs from the devolved regions and this would be in line with the allocation of MEPs in the European Parliament.<br />For if as the Unionist argue that we are equal members of the Union then we should have more influence on non-dissolved issues.glynbeddauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933352430631144936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-1990732581033009562010-11-02T22:41:09.417+00:002010-11-02T22:41:09.417+00:00It's not that I disagree with the other commen...It's not that I disagree with the other comments. Quite the contrary. Good points that speak for themselves.MHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09329059309196746446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-15630804486727738502010-11-02T22:15:11.777+00:002010-11-02T22:15:11.777+00:00Thanks for the comments, I'll just comment on ...Thanks for the comments, I'll just comment on a couple.<br /><br />-<br /><br />Radical, There wouldn't be one top up list of 30AMs. At present we have 5 lists, and in order to get 30, each would now have 6 regional AMs as opposed to 4. If we wanted to, there would be no reason why we shouldn't change the regions so we had, for example, 6 of them each with 5 regional AMs.<br /><br />But the result of either of these changes will be to make it a little easier for smaller parties to get elected. There are lots of variables, but it might well mean that a party could get elected with about 8% of the vote. I don't have any problem with this ... even though it might mean that both the Green Party (which I admire) and the BNP (which I detest) might get in. Democracy should be equal for all.<br /><br />Of course I'd much rather replace the Additional Member system with STV, but that's a different question.<br /><br />-<br /><br />Hendre, The over-representation is older than the 70s. In its current form, it dates back to the Redistribution Acts of 1944 and 1958, though it could be argued that it goes back further to the time when Ireland was partitioned. For background reading, try <a href="http://aceproject.org/ace-en/topics/bd/bdy/bdy_gb" rel="nofollow">this</a>. It's interesting to note from that page that the toleration limit (which the ConDems now want to set at 5%) was then set at 25% ... but even <b>that</b> proved impossible to implement. It should serve to show just how arbitrary and restrictive a 5% limit would be. If only the Tories read some history!<br /><br />On a similar subject, the principle that operates in the European Parliament is that smaller countries get more seats relative to their size <br />than larger ones. So a very small country like Malta gets 6 seats (1 seat for 69,000) a middle sized country like Portugal gets 26 seats (1 seat for 514,000) and Germany gets 96 (one seat for 851,000). I think the principle is good. But the problem in the UK is that the differential has now disappeared in Scotland and NI ... and it is only Wales in an anomalous position.MHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09329059309196746446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-37982553935008628112010-11-02T13:53:36.667+00:002010-11-02T13:53:36.667+00:00Owen makes a a really good observation there....we...Owen makes a a really good observation there....we must use the reduction in the number of welsh mps to point out to people in wales that if they don't vote yes next march exactly the scenario owen paints could well happen<br /><br />Leigh RichardsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-59438184030374929432010-11-02T12:38:30.740+00:002010-11-02T12:38:30.740+00:00As long as "EnglandandWales" is one lega...As long as "EnglandandWales" is one legal juristiction, I think it's perfectly justifyable that Wales is over-represented in Westminster. The thought of new criminal laws and changes to police and prison administration in Wales being pushed through by a further increased English majority, as we are seeing with Police helicopter services currently, without a strong Welsh voice (even if on a practical level it means diddly-squat) isn't palatable. <br /><br />Wales could very well be hit with a democratic-deficit triple whammy:<br /><br />1. A no vote to Part 4 (though that's looking increasingly unlikely)<br /><br />2. A reduction in MPs which will likely happen regardless, making Wales's voice in "EnglandandWales" matters, namely Criminal Justice, Policing and Prisons, weaker than it already is. Also it'll have an additional impact on the LCO process (in the event of a no-vote).<br /><br />3. The subsequent changes to constituency boundaries, with it's impact on Assembly electoral arrangements as highlighted.Owennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-49459374832011700032010-11-02T10:30:42.436+00:002010-11-02T10:30:42.436+00:00I've been hoping to see a good blog on this su...I've been hoping to see a good blog on this subject.<br /><br />"For several decades, both Wales and Scotland were over-represented in the House of Commons.It would probably do more harm than good to go into detail about the reasons for this,..."<br /><br />Now that is intriguing! You say 'several decades'. Since the mid 1970s I take it? <br /><br />The suggestion to allow more than a 5% variation in Wales seems sensible.<br /><br />Re Alun Michael's point about redrawing the boundaries in line with population changes, the Coalition definitely needs to be challenged on that. Otherwise we will have a situation a little like the Council tax - a tax based on property evaluations which are never re-evaluated (not in Wales obviously!)- but more injurious to democracy.Hendrenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-62313777249040905632010-11-02T09:36:04.381+00:002010-11-02T09:36:04.381+00:00If the Assembly follow suit on constituency size, ...If the Assembly follow suit on constituency size, will the top up list have to increase to 30 AMs?<br /><br />Could provide an entry to smaller parties into the assembly.Radical Waleshttp://radicalwales.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-81685497937554764962010-11-02T08:26:47.681+00:002010-11-02T08:26:47.681+00:00excellent article.....i cant for the life of me un...excellent article.....i cant for the life of me understand why some people in plaid cymru argue for the retention of 40 seats for wales..the simple fact is that with the advent of devolution for wales there is no sustainable case for wales having 40 seats at westminster....we cannot have it both ways!!!<br /><br />While clearly any moves to reduce the number of welsh MPs makes the case for a lawmaking welsh assembly....and a yes vote next march.....even stronger.<br /><br />Leigh RichardsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-33547749347140427882010-11-01T23:06:39.704+00:002010-11-01T23:06:39.704+00:00I can't for the life of me understand why a ch...I can't for the life of me understand why a change to the the voting system for general elections is deemed to be a matter for a referendum, but the matter of how constituencies are configured isn't! And even if here is some obscure constitutional nicety that makes this so ( which, in an unwritten constitution, is bound to appear from somewhere!), Why does the referendum on the voting system come before we know hat constituencies we will be in?<br /><br />Tactically, as you point out, we don't have a significant influence in Westminster in any case (unless there is a Labour government with a very small majority!), so Plaid have little to lose on this one. Labour will be the most likely losers in Wales, and we can hope to gain from the feeling of disenfranchisement that this move is likely to foster.SiƓnnynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00021974709953206048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-51048029019011007542010-11-01T22:50:27.257+00:002010-11-01T22:50:27.257+00:00Most Welsh MPs are a waste of space.
A reduction ...Most Welsh MPs are a waste of space.<br /><br />A reduction in their number can only be a good thing.Cai Larsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15349645242691098245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985080357558043054.post-46368701443280781992010-11-01T19:08:03.746+00:002010-11-01T19:08:03.746+00:00It's only right that the number of MPs from Wa...It's only right that the number of MPs from Wales goes down to 30.<br /><br />It's only right that the votes at the Assembly election should better represent the actual votes and not replicate Westminster where Labour could get a thumping majority with about 36% of the vote. For the Assembly and Welsh democracy to work and for people in different parts of Wales to feel they have a stake in the Assembly, then there has to be a fairer system of voting.<br /><br />Labour will probably disagree and fight against both above points but the Coalition government have an opportunity to do be principled and right on this issue. I hope Plaid Cymru don't try and be Janus-like on this and fight to keep Welsh Westminster constituencies.<br /><br />However, they must also recognise the right of Cornwall as a distinct entity to keep that distinctiveness. As a conservative party which understands the importance of tradition and sense of place then that is only right too.<br /><br />CardiffianAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com